From: Bruce Momjian Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:07:01 +0000 (+0000) Subject: Add MySQL file system mention. X-Git-Tag: REL7_2_BETA4~156 X-Git-Url: https://granicus.if.org/sourcecode?a=commitdiff_plain;h=50721b271f06949a361dc5e91ccbf82cce739ee8;p=postgresql Add MySQL file system mention. --- diff --git a/doc/TODO.detail/performance b/doc/TODO.detail/performance index 5bfbbb403b..85ed2c225d 100644 --- a/doc/TODO.detail/performance +++ b/doc/TODO.detail/performance @@ -345,7 +345,7 @@ From owner-pgsql-hackers@hub.org Tue Oct 19 10:31:10 1999 Received: from renoir.op.net (root@renoir.op.net [209.152.193.4]) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA29087 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:31:08 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from hub.org (hub.org [216.126.84.1]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.10 $) with ESMTP id KAA27535 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:19:47 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from hub.org (hub.org [216.126.84.1]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.11 $) with ESMTP id KAA27535 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:19:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA30328; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:12:10 -0400 (EDT) @@ -454,7 +454,7 @@ From owner-pgsql-hackers@hub.org Tue Oct 19 21:25:30 1999 Received: from renoir.op.net (root@renoir.op.net [209.152.193.4]) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA28130 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:25:26 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from hub.org (hub.org [216.126.84.1]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.10 $) with ESMTP id VAA10512 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:15:28 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from hub.org (hub.org [216.126.84.1]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.11 $) with ESMTP id VAA10512 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:15:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA50745; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:07:23 -0400 (EDT) @@ -1006,7 +1006,7 @@ From pgsql-general-owner+M2497@hub.org Fri Jun 16 18:31:03 2000 Received: from renoir.op.net (root@renoir.op.net [207.29.195.4]) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA04165 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 17:31:01 -0400 (EDT) -Received: from hub.org (root@hub.org [216.126.84.1]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.10 $) with ESMTP id RAA13110 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 17:20:12 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from hub.org (root@hub.org [216.126.84.1]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.11 $) with ESMTP id RAA13110 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 17:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hub.org (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id e5GLDaM14477; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 17:13:36 -0400 (EDT) @@ -1283,3 +1283,233 @@ in src/Makefile.custom. -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." +From pgsql-general-owner+M4010@postgresql.org Mon Feb 5 18:50:47 2001 +Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA02209 + for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:50:46 -0500 (EST) +Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) + by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f15Nn8x86486; + Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:49:08 -0500 (EST) + (envelope-from pgsql-general-owner+M4010@postgresql.org) +Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) + by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f15N7Ux81124 + for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:07:30 -0500 (EST) + (envelope-from pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org) +Received: from news.tht.net (news.hub.org [216.126.91.242]) + by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f0V0Twq69854 + for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:29:58 -0500 (EST) + (envelope-from news@news.tht.net) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.tht.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f0V0RAO01011 + for pgsql-general@postgresql.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:27:10 -0500 (EST) + (envelope-from news) +From: Mike Hoskins +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.general +Subject: Re: [GENERAL] MySQL file system +Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:30:36 -0600 +Organization: Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) +Lines: 120 +Message-ID: <3A775CAB.C416AA16@yahoo.com> +References: <016e01c080b7$ea554080$330a0a0a@6014cwpza006> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Complaints-To: scrappy@hub.org +X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) +X-Accept-Language: en +To: pgsql-general@postgresql.org +Precedence: bulk +Sender: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org +Status: OR + +This idea is such a popular (even old) one that Oracle developed it for 8i -- +IFS. Yep, AS/400 has had it forever, and BeOS is another example. Informix has +had its DataBlades for years, as well. In fact, Reiser-FS is an FS implemented +on a DB, albeit probably not a SQL DB. AIX's LVM and JFS is extent/DB-based, as +well. Let's see now, why would all those guys do that? (Now, some of those that +aren't SQL-based probably won't allow SQL queries on files, so just think about +those that do, for a minute).... + +Rather than asking why, a far better question is why not? There is SO much +functionality to be gained here that it's silly to ask why. At a higher level, +treating BLOBs as files and as DB entries simultaneously has so many uses, that +one has trouble answering the question properly without the puzzled stare back +at the questioner. Again, look at the above list, particularly at AS/400 -- the +entire OS's FS sits on top of DB/2! + +For example, think how easy dynamically generated web sites could access online +catalog information, with all those JPEG's, GIFs, PNGs, HTML files, Text files, +.PDF's, etc., both in the DB and in the FS. This would be so much easier to +maintain, when you have webmasters, web designers, artists, programmers, +sysadmins, dba's, etc., all trying to manage a big, dynamic, graphics-rich web +site. Who cares if the FS is a bit slow, as long as it's not too slow? That's +not the point, anyway. + +The point is easy access to data: asset management, version control, the +ability to access the same data as a file and as a BLOB simultaneously, the +ability to replicate easier, the ability to use more tools on the same info, +etc. It's not for speed, per se; instead, it's for accessibility. + +Think about this issue. You have some already compiled text-based program that +works on binary files, but not on databases -- it was simply never designed into +the program. How are you going to get your graphics BLOBs into that program? +Oh yeah, let's write another program to transform our data into files, first, +then after processing delete them in some cleanup routine.... Why? If you have +a DB'ed FS, then file data can simultaneously have two views -- one for the DB +and one as an FS. (You can easily reverse the scenario.) Not only does this +save time and disk space; it saves you from having to pay for the most expensive +element of all -- programmer time. + +BTW, once this FS-on-a-DB concept really sinks in, imagine how tightly +integrated Linux/Unix apps could be written. Imagine if a bunch of GPL'ed +software started coding for this and used this as a means to exchange data, all +using a common set of libraries. You could get to the point of uniting files, +BLOBs, data of all sorts, IPC, version control, etc., all under one umbrella, +especially if XML was the means data was exchanged. Heck, distributed +authentication, file access, data access, etc., could be improved greatly. +Well, this paragraph sounds like flame bait, but really consider the +ramifications. Also, read the next paragraph.... + +Something like this *has* existed for Postgres for a long time -- PGFS, by Brian +Bartholomew. It's even supposedly matured with age. Unfortunately, I cannot +get to http://www.wv.com/ (Working Version's main site). Working Version is a +version control system that keeps old versions of files around in the FS. It +uses PG as the back-end DB and lets you mount it like another FS. It's +supposedly an awesome system, but where is it? It's not some clunky korbit +thingy, either. (If someone can find it, please let me know by email, if +possible.) + +The only thing I can find on this is from a Google search, which caches +everything but the actual software: + +http://www.google.com/search?q=pgfs+postgres&num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&newwindow=1&safe=active + +Also, there is the Perl-FS that can be transformed into something like PGFS: +http://www.assurdo.com/perlfs/ It allows you to write Perl code that can mount +various protocols or data types as an FS, in user space. (One example is the +ability to mount FTP sites, BTW.) + +Instead of ridiculing something you've never tried, consider that MySQL-FS, +Oracle (IFS), Informix (DataBlades), AS/400 (DB/2), BeOS, and Reiser-FS are +doing this today. Do you want to be left behind and let them tell us what it's +good for? Or, do we want this for PG? (Reiser-FS, BTW, is FASTER than ext2, +but has no SQL hooks). + +There were many posts on this on slashdot: + http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/01/16/1855253&mode=thread + (I wrote some comments here, as well, just look for mikehoskins) + +I, for one, want to see this succeed for MySQL, PostgreSQL, msql, etc. It's an +awesome feature that doesn't need to be speedy because it can save HUMANS time. + +The question really is, "When do we want to catch up to everyone else?" We are +always moving to higher levels of abstraction, anyway, so it's just a matter of +time. PG should participate. + + +Adam Lang wrote: + +> I wasn't following the thread too closely, but database for a filesystem has +> been done. BeOS uses a database for a filesystem as well as AS/400 and +> Mainframes. +> +> Adam Lang +> Systems Engineer +> Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company +> http://www.rutgersinsurance.com +> ----- Original Message ----- +> From: "Alfred Perlstein" +> To: "Robert D. Nelson" +> Cc: "Joseph Shraibman" ; "Karl DeBisschop" +> ; "Ned Lilly" ; "PostgreSQL +> General" +> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 12:23 PM +> Subject: Re: [GENERAL] MySQL file system +> +> > * Robert D. Nelson [010117 05:17] wrote: +> > > >Raw disk access allows: +> > > +> > > If I'm correct, mysql is providing a filesystem, not a way to access raw +> > > disk, like Oracle does. Huge difference there - with a filesystem, you +> have +> > > overhead of FS *and* SQL at the same time. +> > +> > Oh, so it's sort of like /proc for mysql? +> > +> > What a terrible waste of time and resources. :( +> > +> > -- +> > -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] +> > "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." + + +From pgsql-general-owner+M4049@postgresql.org Tue Feb 6 01:26:19 2001 +Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id BAA21425 + for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 01:26:18 -0500 (EST) +Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) + by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f166Nxx26400; + Tue, 6 Feb 2001 01:23:59 -0500 (EST) + (envelope-from pgsql-general-owner+M4049@postgresql.org) +Received: from simecity.com ([202.188.254.2]) + by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f166GUx25754 + for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 01:16:30 -0500 (EST) + (envelope-from lyeoh@pop.jaring.my) +Received: (from mail@localhost) + by simecity.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id OAA23910; + Tue, 6 Feb 2001 14:28:48 +0800 +Received: from (ilab2.mecomb.po.my [192.168.3.22]) by cirrus.simecity.com via smap (V2.1) + id xma023908; Tue, 6 Feb 01 14:28:34 +0800 +Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010206141555.00a3d100@192.228.128.13> +X-Sender: lyeoh@192.228.128.13 +X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) +Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 14:15:55 +0800 +To: Mike Hoskins , pgsql-general@postgresql.org +From: Lincoln Yeoh +Subject: [GENERAL] Re: MySQL file system +In-Reply-To: <3A775CF7.3C5F1909@yahoo.com> +References: <016e01c080b7$ea554080$330a0a0a@6014cwpza006> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" +Precedence: bulk +Sender: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org +Status: OR + +What you're saying seems to be to have a data structure where the same data +can be accessed in both the filesystem style and the RDBMs style. How does +that work? How is the mapping done between both structures? Slapping a +filesystem on top of a RDBMs doesn't do that does it? + +Most filesystems are basically databases already, just differently +structured and featured databases. And so far most of them do their job +pretty well. You move a folder/directory somewhere, and everything inside +it moves. Tons of data are already arranged in that form. Though porting +over data from one filesystem to another is not always straightforward, +RDBMSes are far worse. + +Maybe what would be nice is not a filesystem based on a database, rather +one influenced by databases. One with a decent fulltextindex for data and +filenames, where you have the option to ignore or not ignore +nonalphanumerics and still get an indexed search. + +Then perhaps we could do something like the following: + +select file.name from path "/var/logs/" where file.name like "%.log%' and +file.lastmodified > '2000/1/1' and file.contents =~ 'te_st[0-9]+\.gif$' use +index + +Checkpoints would be nice too. Then I can rollback to a known point if I +screw up ;). + +In fact the SQL style interface doesn't have to be built in at all. Neither +does the index have to be realtime. I suppose there could be an option to +make it realtime if performance is not an issue. + +What could be done is to use some fast filesystem. Then we add tools to +maintain indexes, for SQL style interfaces and other style interfaces. +Checkpoints and rollbacks would be harder of course. + +Cheerio, +Link. + +