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From: "Hiroshi Inoue" <Inoue@tpf.co.jp>
To: "Bruce Momjian" <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Cc: "pgsql-hackers" <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: RE: [HACKERS] Index recreation in vacuum
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:13:40 +0900
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Momjian [mailto:pgman@candle.pha.pa.us]
>
Inoue@tpf.co.jp
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From: "Hiroshi Inoue" <Inoue@tpf.co.jp>
To: "Bruce Momjian" <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Cc: "pgsql-hackers" <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: RE: [HACKERS] Index recreation in vacuum
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:13:40 +0900
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Momjian [mailto:pgman@candle.pha.pa.us]
>
************
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From: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <200001190150.UAA11421@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Index recreation in vacuum
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:50:50 -0500 (EST)
CC: pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
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> > > Add a new option to force index recreation in vacuum
> > > and if index recreation is specified.
************
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From: Bruce Momjian <pgman>
Message-Id: <200001190204.VAA11990@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Index recreation in vacuum
CC: Hiroshi Inoue <Inoue@tpf.co.jp>,
pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
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> > I don't know how people estimate this disadvantage.
>
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
From Inoue@tpf.co.jp Tue Jan 18 20:18:48 2000
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From: "Hiroshi Inoue" <Inoue@tpf.co.jp>
To: "Bruce Momjian" <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Cc: "pgsql-hackers" <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: RE: [HACKERS] Index recreation in vacuum
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:23:55 +0900
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Momjian [mailto:pgman@candle.pha.pa.us]
>
From owner-pgsql-hackers@hub.org Tue Jan 18 20:53:49 2000
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From: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <200001190245.VAA13040@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Index recreation in vacuum
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:45:27 -0500 (EST)
CC: pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
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> > > In fact, for REINDEX cases where you don't have a lock on the entire
> > > table as you do in vacuum, you could reindex the table with a simple
************
From owner-pgsql-hackers@hub.org Tue Jan 18 21:15:24 2000
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From: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <200001190308.WAA13965@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Index recreation in vacuum
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:08:25 -0500 (EST)
CC: pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
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+> I heard from someone that old vacuum had been like so.
+> Probably 2x disk space for big tables was a big disadvantage.
+
+That's interesting.
+
+>
+> In addition,rename(),unlink(),mv aren't preferable for transaction
+> control as far as I see. We couldn't avoid inconsistency using
+> those OS functions.
+
+I disagree. Vacuum can't be rolled back anyway in the sense you can
+bring back expire tuples, though I have no idea why you would want to.
+
+You have an exclusive lock on the table. Putting new heap/indexes in
+place that match and have no expired tuples seems like it can not fail
+in any situation.
+
+Of course, the buffers of the old table have to be marked as invalid,
+but with an exclusive lock, that is not a problem. I am sure we do that
+anyway in vacuum.
+
+> We have to wait the change of relation file naming if copying
+> vacuum is needed.
+> Under the spec we need not rename(),mv etc.
+
+Sorry, I don't agree, yet...
+
+--
+ Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
+ pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
+
+************
From Inoue@tpf.co.jp Tue Jan 18 21:05:23 2000
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From: "Hiroshi Inoue" <Inoue@tpf.co.jp>
To: "Bruce Momjian" <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Cc: "pgsql-hackers" <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: RE: [HACKERS] Index recreation in vacuum
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:10:32 +0900
Message-ID: <000f01bf622a$bf423940$2801007e@tpf.co.jp>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Momjian [mailto:pgman@candle.pha.pa.us]
> > >
From dms@wplus.net Wed Jan 19 15:30:40 2000
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Message-ID: <38862C9D.C2151E4E@wplus.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:29:01 +0300
From: Dmitry Samersoff <dms@wplus.net>
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To: Hiroshi Inoue <Inoue@tpf.co.jp>
CC: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>,
pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Index recreation in vacuum
References: <000f01bf622a$bf423940$2801007e@tpf.co.jp>
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Hiroshi Inoue wrote:
> > > Yes,I believe so. It's necessary to keep consistency between heap
> > > table and indexes even in case of abort/crash.
* there will come soft rains
From dms@wplus.net Wed Jan 19 15:42:49 2000
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:41:26 +0300
From: Dmitry Samersoff <dms@wplus.net>
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To: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
CC: Hiroshi Inoue <Inoue@tpf.co.jp>,
pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Index recreation in vacuum
References: <200001192132.QAA26048@candle.pha.pa.us>
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Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> We need two things:
dms@wplus.net http://devnull.wplus.net
* there will come soft rains
+From owner-pgsql-hackers@hub.org Thu Jan 20 23:51:34 2000
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+From: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
+Message-Id: <200001210543.AAA13592@candle.pha.pa.us>
+Subject: [HACKERS] vacuum timings
+To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
+Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 00:43:49 -0500 (EST)
+CC: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
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+Status: OR
+
+I loaded 10,000,000 rows into CREATE TABLE test (x INTEGER); Table is
+400MB and index is 160MB.
+
+With index on the single in4 column, I got:
+ 78 seconds for a vacuum
+ 121 seconds for vacuum after deleting a single row
+ 662 seconds for vacuum after deleting the entire table
+
+With no index, I got:
+ 43 seconds for a vacuum
+ 43 seconds for vacuum after deleting a single row
+ 43 seconds for vacuum after deleting the entire table
+
+I find this quite interesting.
+
+--
+ Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
+ pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
+
+************
+
From owner-pgsql-hackers@hub.org Fri Jan 21 00:34:56 2000
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Message-ID: <3887FC19.80305217@krs.ru>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:26:33 +0700
From: Vadim Mikheev <vadim@krs.ru>
Organization: OJSC Rostelecom (Krasnoyarsk)
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To: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
CC: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>,
PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] vacuum timings
References: <200001210543.AAA13592@candle.pha.pa.us>
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Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
************
From vadim@krs.ru Fri Jan 21 00:26:33 2000
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To: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
CC: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>,
PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] vacuum timings
References: <200001210543.AAA13592@candle.pha.pa.us>
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Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
Vadim
From Inoue@tpf.co.jp Fri Jan 21 00:40:35 2000
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From: "Hiroshi Inoue" <Inoue@tpf.co.jp>
To: "Bruce Momjian" <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Cc: "PostgreSQL-development" <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>,
Subject: RE: [HACKERS] vacuum timings
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:46:15 +0900
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
> [mailto:owner-pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org]On Behalf Of Bruce Momjian
Inoue@tpf.co.jp
From owner-pgsql-hackers@hub.org Fri Jan 21 12:00:49 2000
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From: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <200001211751.MAA12106@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: [HACKERS] Re: vacuum timings
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:51:53 -0500 (EST)
CC: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
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> Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:
> > I loaded 10,000,000 rows into CREATE TABLE test (x INTEGER); Table is
************
From scrappy@hub.org Fri Jan 21 12:45:38 2000
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:45:34 -0400 (AST)
From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Re: vacuum timings
In-Reply-To: <200001211751.MAA12106@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0001211443480.23487-100000@thelab.hub.org>
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On Fri, 21 Jan 2000, Bruce Momjian wrote:
From tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us Fri Jan 21 13:06:35 2000
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To: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
cc: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: Re: vacuum timings
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:06:31 -0500
Message-ID: <16498.948481591@sss.pgh.pa.us>
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
-Content-Length: 391
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Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:
> Conclusions:
regards, tom lane
From dms@wplus.net Fri Jan 21 13:51:27 2000
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To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
CC: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>,
PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Re: vacuum timings
References: <200001211751.MAA12106@candle.pha.pa.us> <16498.948481591@sss.pgh.pa.us>
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Tom Lane wrote:
>
> Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:
* there will come soft rains
From owner-pgsql-hackers@hub.org Fri Jan 21 14:04:08 2000
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From: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <200001211954.OAA15772@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Re: vacuum timings
CC: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>,
PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
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> Tom Lane wrote:
************
From scrappy@hub.org Fri Jan 21 14:12:16 2000
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X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:12:25 -0400 (AST)
From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Re: vacuum timings
In-Reply-To: <200001211954.OAA15772@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0001211607080.23487-100000@thelab.hub.org>
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On Fri, 21 Jan 2000, Bruce Momjian wrote:
From tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us Fri Jan 21 16:02:07 2000
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To: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
cc: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>,
PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:02:06 -0500
Message-ID: <9694.948492126@sss.pgh.pa.us>
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
-Content-Length: 1274
+Status: OR
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
>> lock table for less duration, or read lock
regards, tom lane
From tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us Fri Jan 21 22:50:34 2000
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To: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
cc: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: Re: vacuum timings
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 23:50:13 -0500
Message-ID: <19678.948516613@sss.pgh.pa.us>
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
-Content-Length: 1302
+Status: ORr
Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:
> Conclusions:
regards, tom lane
From owner-pgsql-hackers@hub.org Sat Jan 22 02:31:03 2000
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From: "Hiroshi Inoue" <Inoue@tpf.co.jp>
To: "Tom Lane" <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>, "Bruce Momjian" <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Cc: "PostgreSQL-development" <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
Subject: RE: [HACKERS] Re: vacuum timings
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:15:37 +0900
Message-ID: <NDBBIJLOILGIKBGDINDFIEEACCAA.Inoue@tpf.co.jp>
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+> -----Original Message-----
+> From: owner-pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
+> [mailto:owner-pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org]On Behalf Of Tom Lane
+>
+> Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:
+> > Conclusions:
+> > o indexes never get smaller
+>
+> Which we knew...
+>
+> > o drop/recreate index is slower than vacuum of indexes
+>
+> Quite a few people have reported finding the opposite in practice.
+> You should probably try vacuuming after deleting or updating some
+> fraction of the rows, rather than just the all or none cases.
+>
+
+Vacuum after delelting all rows isn't a worst case.
+There's no moving in that case and vacuum doesn't need to call
+index_insert() corresponding to the moving of heap tuples.
+
+Vacuum after deleting half of rows may be one of the worst case.
+In this case,index_delete() is called as many times as 'delete all'
+case and expensive index_insert() is called for moved_in tuples.
+
+Regards.
+
+Hiroshi Inoue
+Inoue@tpf.co.jp
+
+************
From tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us Sat Jan 22 10:31:02 2000
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+ Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:11:26 -0500 (EST)
To: "Hiroshi Inoue" <Inoue@tpf.co.jp>
cc: "Bruce Momjian" <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>,
"PostgreSQL-development" <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:11:25 -0500
Message-ID: <20566.948557485@sss.pgh.pa.us>
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
-Content-Length: 186
+Status: OR
"Hiroshi Inoue" <Inoue@tpf.co.jp> writes:
> Vacuum after deleting half of rows may be one of the worst case.