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regards, tom lane
+From pgsql-hackers-owner+M5909@hub.org Thu Aug 17 20:15:33 2000
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+Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:01:18 -0700
+From: Alfred Perlstein <bright@wintelcom.net>
+To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
+Subject: [HACKERS] VACUUM optimization ideas.
+Message-ID: <20000817170118.K4854@fw.wintelcom.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
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+Status: ORr
+
+Here's two ideas I had for optimizing vacuum, I apologize in advance
+if the ideas presented here are niave and don't take into account
+the actual code that makes up postgresql.
+
+================
+
+#1
+
+Reducing the time vacuum must hold an exlusive lock on a table:
+
+The idea is that since rows are marked deleted it's ok for the
+vacuum to fill them with data from the tail of the table as
+long as no transaction is in progress that has started before
+the row was deleted.
+
+This may allow the vacuum process to copyback all the data without
+a lock, when all the copying is done it then aquires an exlusive lock
+and does this:
+
+Aquire an exclusive lock.
+Walk all the deleted data marking it as current.
+Truncate the table.
+Release the lock.
+
+Since the data is still marked invalid (right?) even if valid data
+is copied into the space it should be ignored as long as there's no
+transaction occurring that started before the data was invalidated.
+
+================
+
+#2
+
+Reducing the amount of scanning a vaccum must do:
+
+It would make sense that if a value of the earliest deleted chunk
+was kept in a table then vacuum would not have to scan the entire
+table in order to work, it would only need to start at the 'earliest'
+invalidated row.
+
+The utility of this (at least for us) is that we have several tables
+that will grow to hundreds of megabytes, however changes will only
+happen at the tail end (recently added rows). If we could reduce the
+amount of time spent in a vacuum state it would help us a lot.
+
+================
+
+I'm wondering if these ideas make sense and may help at all.
+
+thanks,
+--
+-Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org]
+
+From pgsql-hackers-owner+M5912@hub.org Fri Aug 18 01:36:14 2000
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+Message-ID: <399CC739.B9B13D18@adinet.com.uy>
+Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 02:18:49 -0300
+From: hstenger@adinet.com.uy
+Reply-To: hstenger@ieee.org
+Organization: PRISMA, Servicio y Desarrollo
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i586)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: Alfred Perlstein <bright@wintelcom.net>, pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
+Subject: Re: [HACKERS] VACUUM optimization ideas.
+References: <20000817170118.K4854@fw.wintelcom.net>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+Precedence: bulk
+Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@hub.org
+Status: ORr
+
+Alfred Perlstein wrote:
+> #1
+>
+> Reducing the time vacuum must hold an exlusive lock on a table:
+>
+> The idea is that since rows are marked deleted it's ok for the
+> vacuum to fill them with data from the tail of the table as
+> long as no transaction is in progress that has started before
+> the row was deleted.
+>
+> This may allow the vacuum process to copyback all the data without
+> a lock, when all the copying is done it then aquires an exlusive lock
+> and does this:
+>
+> Aquire an exclusive lock.
+> Walk all the deleted data marking it as current.
+> Truncate the table.
+> Release the lock.
+>
+> Since the data is still marked invalid (right?) even if valid data
+> is copied into the space it should be ignored as long as there's no
+> transaction occurring that started before the data was invalidated.
+
+Yes, but nothing prevents newer transactions from modifying the _origin_ side of
+the copied data _after_ it was copied, but before the Lock-Walk-Truncate-Unlock
+cycle takes place, and so it seems unsafe. Maybe locking each record before
+copying it up ...
+
+Regards,
+Haroldo.
+
+--
+----------------------+------------------------
+ Haroldo Stenger | hstenger@ieee.org
+ Montevideo, Uruguay. | hstenger@adinet.com.uy
+----------------------+------------------------
+ Visit UYLUG Web Site: http://www.linux.org.uy
+-----------------------------------------------
+
+From pgsql-hackers-owner+M5917@hub.org Fri Aug 18 09:41:33 2000
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+Message-ID: <399D3938.582FDB49@ip23.net>
+Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:25:12 +0200
+From: Sevo Stille <sevo@ip23.net>
+Organization: IP23
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+To: Alfred Perlstein <bright@wintelcom.net>
+CC: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
+Subject: Re: [HACKERS] VACUUM optimization ideas.
+References: <20000817170118.K4854@fw.wintelcom.net>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+Status: OR
+
+Alfred Perlstein wrote:
+
+> The idea is that since rows are marked deleted it's ok for the
+> vacuum to fill them with data from the tail of the table as
+> long as no transaction is in progress that has started before
+> the row was deleted.
+
+Well, isn't one of the advantages of vacuuming in the reordering it
+does? With a "fill deleted chunks" logic, we'd have far less order in
+the databases.
+
+> This may allow the vacuum process to copyback all the data without
+> a lock,
+
+Nope. Another process might update the values in between move and mark,
+if the record is not locked. We'd either have to write-lock the entire
+table for that period, write lock every item as it is moved, or lock,
+move and mark on a per-record base. The latter would be slow, but it
+could be done in a permanent low priority background process, utilizing
+empty CPU cycles. Besides, it probably could not only be done simply
+filling from the tail, but also moving up the records in a sorted
+fashion.
+
+> #2
+>
+> Reducing the amount of scanning a vaccum must do:
+>
+> It would make sense that if a value of the earliest deleted chunk
+> was kept in a table then vacuum would not have to scan the entire
+> table in order to work, it would only need to start at the 'earliest'
+> invalidated row.
+
+Trivial to do. But of course #1 may imply that the physical ordering is
+even less likely to be related to the logical ordering in a way where
+this helps.
+
+> The utility of this (at least for us) is that we have several tables
+> that will grow to hundreds of megabytes, however changes will only
+> happen at the tail end (recently added rows).
+
+The tail is a relative position - except for the case where you add
+temporary records to a constant default set, everything in the tail will
+move, at least relatively, to the head after some time.
+
+> If we could reduce the
+> amount of time spent in a vacuum state it would help us a lot.
+
+Rather: If we can reduce the time spent in a locked state while
+vacuuming, it would help a lot. Being in a vacuum is not the issue -
+even permanent vacuuming need not be an issue, if the locks it uses are
+suitably short-time.
+
+Sevo
+
+--
+sevo@ip23.net
+
+From pgsql-hackers-owner+M5911@hub.org Thu Aug 17 21:11:20 2000
+Received: from hub.org (root@hub.org [216.126.84.1])
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+ by hub.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e7I0wMm79870
+ for <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:58:22 -0400 (EDT)
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+ Fri, 18 Aug 2000 10:58:25 +1000
+Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20000818105835.0280ade0@mail.rhyme.com.au>
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+Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 10:58:35 +1000
+To: Chris Bitmead <chrisb@nimrod.itg.telstra.com.au>,
+ Ben Adida <ben@openforce.net>
+From: Philip Warner <pjw@rhyme.com.au>
+Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Inserting a select statement result into another
+ table
+Cc: Andrew Selle <aselle@upl.cs.wisc.edu>, pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
+In-Reply-To: <399C7689.2DDDAD1D@nimrod.itg.telecom.com.au>
+References: <20000817130517.A10909@upl.cs.wisc.edu>
+ <399BF555.43FB70C8@openforce.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@hub.org
+Status: O
+
+At 09:34 18/08/00 +1000, Chris Bitmead wrote:
+>
+>He does ask a legitimate question though. If you are going to have a
+>LIMIT feature (which of course is not pure SQL), there seems no reason
+>you shouldn't be able to insert the result into a table.
+
+This feature is supported by two commercial DBs: Dec/RDB and SQL/Server. I
+have no idea if Oracle supports it, but it is such a *useful* feature that
+I would be very surprised if it didn't.
+
+
+>Ben Adida wrote:
+>>
+>> What is the purpose you're trying to accomplish with this order by? No
+matter what, all the
+>> rows where done='f' will be inserted, and you will not be left with any
+indication of that
+>> order once the rows are in the todolist table.
+
+I don't know what his *purpose* was, but the query should only insert the
+first two rows from the select bacause of the limit).
+
+>> Andrew Selle wrote:
+>>
+>> > Alright. My situation is this. I have a list of things that need to
+be done
+>> > in a table called tasks. I have a list of users who will complete
+these tasks.
+>> > I want these users to be able to come in and "claim" the top 2 most
+recent tasks
+>> > that have been added. These tasks then get stored in a table called
+todolist
+>> > which stores who claimed the task, the taskid, and when the task was
+claimed.
+>> > For each time someone wants to claim some number of tasks, I want to
+do something
+>> > like
+>> >
+>> > INSERT INTO todolist
+>> > SELECT taskid,'1',now()
+>> > FROM tasks
+>> > WHERE done='f'
+>> > ORDER BY submit DESC
+>> > LIMIT 2;
+
+----------------------------------------------------------------
+Philip Warner | __---_____
+Albatross Consulting Pty. Ltd. |----/ - \
+(A.B.N. 75 008 659 498) | /(@) ______---_
+Tel: (+61) 0500 83 82 81 | _________ \
+Fax: (+61) 0500 83 82 82 | ___________ |
+Http://www.rhyme.com.au | / \|
+ | --________--
+PGP key available upon request, | /
+and from pgp5.ai.mit.edu:11371 |/
+
projects / postgresql / commitdiff